this arent there legitimate cases where God´s will can be thwarted? think of matt 23 "how many times did I wish to gather you beneath my wings, like a hen her chicks, but you wanted not."
That is a really good question. Maybe I'll devote an entire article to answering that specifically!
But for now, here is what Thomas thinks. He says:
"God... neither wills evil to be done, nor wills it not to be done, but wills to permit evil to be done; and this is a good."
God does not will for sin to be committed; however, He does will to permit sin and to punish sins that have been committed.
For example, God did not will that Adam fall, otherwise He would be the author of Adam's sin. On the other hand, God does will to permit Adam to fall although He is in no way the cause of the sin. Additionally, after Adam has sinned, God wills to punish his sin.
Thomas believes that God allows free creatures to turn away from Him so that He can use their sin as the occasion of much good.
Thomas says this:
...if all evil were prevented, much good would be absent from the universe. A lion would cease to live, if there were no slaying of animals; and there would be no patience of martyrs if there were no tyrannical persecution.
but the more interesting tension is between Gods sovereignty and our free will. I think St Augustine ends his treatise on this topic by simply throwing his hands up, saying we cannot understand it, and that we need to pray. this is probably the right move.
St Thomas says the chance of failure increases diligence, so God permits evil to bring out this good. If we say God´s will be done and then check out and are self satisfied, His Will works without us, but will be done. You mention your family member returning to confession. Great news! Its fascinating: St Padre Pio regularly prayed that the elect will be saved. What sort of prayer is this? I pray that squares be four sided. Well not really I guess, there must be more to it, he is a great saint. The scriptures say had the time of tribulation before the end of days non been cut short, even the elect would not have been saved. God doesn´t let Moses into the promised land, though this was his original desire, that he should lead them in, because of his sin.
The interplay between grace and free will is too much to answer in a comment! However, I do have an article on that coming up soon.
As to why St. Pio would pray for the elect to be saved, Saint Thomas has this to say:
"Our motive in praying is, not that we may change the Divine disposition, but that, by our prayers, we may obtain what God has appointed."
It's likely that God appointed to save certain souls (probably lots of them) through Padre Pio's prayers. So, when Pio prays for the salvation of the elect, he brings about what God has appointed and he does it in the way God has appointed.
To your point about praying for squares to have four sides:
Our prayers produce contingent effects. Padre Pio prayed for the salvation of those who truly could have been lost. Their salvation was contingent upon his prayer. If one were to pray for squares to have four sides, his prayer would be pointless because squares have four sides necessarily and not contingently.
the point was that a square by definition has four sides.
the elect by definition are saved. he wasnt praying for poor sinners, but the elect, which raises questions bigger than a comment feed. ill look forward to your future posts.
I think we forget about Jesus' humanity at times. But obviously He didn't.
this arent there legitimate cases where God´s will can be thwarted? think of matt 23 "how many times did I wish to gather you beneath my wings, like a hen her chicks, but you wanted not."
That is a really good question. Maybe I'll devote an entire article to answering that specifically!
But for now, here is what Thomas thinks. He says:
"God... neither wills evil to be done, nor wills it not to be done, but wills to permit evil to be done; and this is a good."
God does not will for sin to be committed; however, He does will to permit sin and to punish sins that have been committed.
For example, God did not will that Adam fall, otherwise He would be the author of Adam's sin. On the other hand, God does will to permit Adam to fall although He is in no way the cause of the sin. Additionally, after Adam has sinned, God wills to punish his sin.
Thomas believes that God allows free creatures to turn away from Him so that He can use their sin as the occasion of much good.
Thomas says this:
...if all evil were prevented, much good would be absent from the universe. A lion would cease to live, if there were no slaying of animals; and there would be no patience of martyrs if there were no tyrannical persecution.
I hope this short answer helps! Great question.
Reference:
https://aquinas.cc/la/en/~ST.I.Q19.A9.Rep3
https://aquinas.cc/la/en/~ST.I.Q22.A2.Rep2
right God wills good and permits evil.
but the more interesting tension is between Gods sovereignty and our free will. I think St Augustine ends his treatise on this topic by simply throwing his hands up, saying we cannot understand it, and that we need to pray. this is probably the right move.
St Thomas says the chance of failure increases diligence, so God permits evil to bring out this good. If we say God´s will be done and then check out and are self satisfied, His Will works without us, but will be done. You mention your family member returning to confession. Great news! Its fascinating: St Padre Pio regularly prayed that the elect will be saved. What sort of prayer is this? I pray that squares be four sided. Well not really I guess, there must be more to it, he is a great saint. The scriptures say had the time of tribulation before the end of days non been cut short, even the elect would not have been saved. God doesn´t let Moses into the promised land, though this was his original desire, that he should lead them in, because of his sin.
The interplay between grace and free will is too much to answer in a comment! However, I do have an article on that coming up soon.
As to why St. Pio would pray for the elect to be saved, Saint Thomas has this to say:
"Our motive in praying is, not that we may change the Divine disposition, but that, by our prayers, we may obtain what God has appointed."
It's likely that God appointed to save certain souls (probably lots of them) through Padre Pio's prayers. So, when Pio prays for the salvation of the elect, he brings about what God has appointed and he does it in the way God has appointed.
To your point about praying for squares to have four sides:
Our prayers produce contingent effects. Padre Pio prayed for the salvation of those who truly could have been lost. Their salvation was contingent upon his prayer. If one were to pray for squares to have four sides, his prayer would be pointless because squares have four sides necessarily and not contingently.
Reference:
https://aquinas.cc/la/en/~ST.II-II.Q83.A2.Rep2
the point was that a square by definition has four sides.
the elect by definition are saved. he wasnt praying for poor sinners, but the elect, which raises questions bigger than a comment feed. ill look forward to your future posts.